Well first off, my feeling is, let’s do everything we can all at once. Individuals can take some action which can spur collective action, which can spur global action. But beef consumption, even among wealthy Americans, is something of the order of 3 to 5 percent of their personal carbon emissions. If half of the US went vegan tomorrow, there would be a drop in our carbon emissions on the order of a couple of percentage points. We just need so much more action. And I worry that lifestyle commitments like that sort of us allow to think we don't need to engage in more dramatic, global action. I think there's a way to reduce the carbon footprint of what we expect without actually asking people to expect less. Now, we may end up having to ask people to expect less, but I'm not personally ready to say that that's necessary or inevitable. Right, but when 60 percent of the energy that's produced by the electricity sector is lost as wasted heat, and Americans discard something like 60 percent of their food… You can imagine an austerity project that actually doesn't deprive people of anything if we just made these systems much more efficient and made people much more conscious of their waste. That’s one reason why the average European’s carbon footprint is much, much smaller than the average American. They just produce waste much less casually. was first introduced about a decade ago, by the Green Party. “If they had listened to us then, we may actually have the Green New Deal in effect now,” says Frame. “We don’t just fit into the conversation of climate change; we define it.”